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INTRODUCTION TO DUNBARPLUMBINGFORUMS.COM => Plumbing Blogs => Topic started by: DUNBAR PLUMBING on April 06, 2011, 10:52:59 PM

Title: Horned Wax Rings - Wax rings with Built in Plastic Collars
Post by: DUNBAR PLUMBING on April 06, 2011, 10:52:59 PM

 
The wax ring as we know for years has been the number one product that provides a water and gas leak proof connection to the bottom of your toilet and plumbing system in your home. People commonly call these rings 'Bees Wax' or "Honey Rings" between the toilet and closet flange. Flanged or horned wax rings became available around 20 years ago as a design that was meant to deflect water downwards into the center of the piping below the actual surface of the closet flange. This would provide an ability to still seat a toilet knowing there was questionable condition of a lead bend leading to a brass closet ring. But with any new product comes conditions and variables, and here is why I believe the horned/flanged ring has become not only the most problematic, but the most costly to consumers in property damage claims along with installation errors that have cost millions.

For as many years that Dunbar Plumbing has been in the plumbing profession, we have noticed over time the sharp increase in "toilet leaks at base" service calls. Our first line of thinking pointed us towards the do it yourself sector that has been ever growing over the past decades, property owners taking it upon themselves to replace a wax ring under a toilet. What first leads them to wax ring replacement to begin with?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/DUNBAR/wax_ring_with_horn.jpg)

Improperly flushing toilets. Toilets that were builder's grade or bare minimum in cost and quality. Home builders follow the bare minimum in design and even though it is new white and shiny does not mean it's going to provide years of longevity without problems. Anyone that has a toilet that is reading these very words will understand the frustration found in unreliable toilets, wondering if what you flush will not go down. These type of toilets are so common in newer homes that it is guaranteed that a plunger will be a purchased item sitting next to the toilet for the "next time."

When consumers finally tire of this ongoing scenario, purchase of a better or better flushing toilet is the next smart buying decision. This is where you can tell when the customer has reached a threshold where cost doesn't bother them at all on the buying decision. They want piece of mind that the toilet they purchase is a final one with no second guessing. Clogged toilets can be very common when small children reside in the home, or that fearful moment when the toilet clogs when company arrives. An embarrassing, sometimes horrible experience that becomes when someone flushes something like female hygiene products or uses large amounts of toilet paper. Why people think it is customary to treat someones home like that, knowing the possibility of a clog is rude. Read more...

Title: Re: Horned Wax Rings - Wax rings with Built in Plastic Collars
Post by: DUNBAR PLUMBING on April 10, 2011, 11:49:09 AM

Given the nature of what a clogged toilet can lead to:

1. Chronic Toilet Plunging that leads to Wax Ring Blowout

2. Removal of Toilet to Clear Obstruction

3. Replacement of Toilet to Correct Chronic Toilet Clogging


All of the above will either have the property owner

A. Call a Plumber to resolve the issue every time

B. Attempt to do it themselves to save on costs, especially a chronic problem


Calling a plumber every time you have a situation relating to plumbing can become quite costly, and even Dunbar Plumbing doesn't recommend that kind of situation. A lot of people are very capable of doing their own plumbing repairs but they need to know their limitations, otherwise a plumber does become a part of the problem solving.

HORNED AND FLANGED TOILET WAX RINGS

At Dunbar Plumbing we refuse to use or install Horned Wax Rings because they only work on specific applications which are rare at best when they do work. A wax ring is designed to compress and widen when the toilet is placed over top of a water closet/toilet flange, resting the footprint of the toilet on the hard surface floor. Industry standard on all homes regardless of location the flange must sit on top of the finished floor's surface to allow the best and proper compression of the wax ring between toilet and flange. Between new floors installed in a bathroom to either simple linoleum utilizing luan underlayment (1/4") or floating floors that are pieced together, to natural wood floors, tile that requires backer board that all raise the floor around the flange, lowering it into the floor. All of these scenarios automatically change the dimension of the distance between toilet and flange, and where all the problems truly begin.


If the toilet flange is too far into the floor's surfaced, meaning recessed, the installer usually wants to double up a wax ring, sometimes using a horned ring, sometimes not. When you double a wax ring you are asking for the next use of the plunger when plunging "not" to blow out the weakest part of the connection between toilet and your piping system. This is even more common during winter months or homes without air conditioning because the wax in wax rings becomes very pliable when it is room temperature and above. We have seen wax rings that over time the product has lost all shape, not stiff anymore and even the slightest amount of pressure could force a blowout or leak onto the floor. When a toilet is clogged the property owner does not know exactly where the clog is, only that the toilet is not flushing. Plunging can be a situation where the wax ring can rupture, allowing water to leak between the toilet and flange without ever knowing for days weeks or months. It is only until a darkness (mold) that shows up through the linoleum floor, darkened grout between the tiles or a wood floor that starts to cup or squish when walking near or around the toilet that the problem is recognized. It can prove very costly at that point, knowing the damage can grow extensively to the damage to the subfloor, mold growth that cannot be treated only by replacement of the wood, and structural damage that weakens the very strength of the area where the toilet sits. In the midst of all these common episodes of toilets leaking, what we find are horned/flanged wax rings.

CLOGGED TOILETS

The best recommendation for clogged toilets is a Closet Auger, not a Plunger. A closet auger will perform the task of unclogging the toilet if the clog is inside the toilet itself. If the clog is beyond the toilet, a closet auger with a telescoping auger up to six feet is recommended. Closet augers are drain cables that ride inside a short pipe with a telescoping extension to the design to send 6' of cable through the toilet and into the first three feet of the drain system. Using this auger will protect the wax ring from damage and clear the obstruction without compressing/expanding the wax ring outwards when hydropressure is applied. The very reason why Dunbar Plumbing will not keep plungers on our service trucks as they only make the matter worse, not better even if the toilet is unclogged by the plunger alone. The chance exists for the wax ring to leak at that point and could possibly not be detected for an extended period of time, which can result into a costly repair for the property owner and an insurance claim for the plumber, the one who plunged the toilet to get it open. Here is a picture of what a Closet Auger looks like:


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/DUNBAR/untitled.bmp)

Title: Re: Horned Wax Rings - Wax rings with Built in Plastic Collars
Post by: DUNBAR PLUMBING on April 10, 2011, 12:48:17 PM

THE TASK AT HAND - REPLACING THE WAX RING

When the property owners takes it upon themselves to replace a wax ring, marketing gets in the way of "what worked for years" and it is toted as better, improved, more reliable. The horn/flanged ring is made to believe that it is necessary when it isn't. If your flange is in bad enough shape where you need to have a horn on the end of the ring, there comes a place and time that you should be addressing the situation of your toilet flange, no? Marketing drives the consumer to purchase something they had no intention of buying to begin with. What is common with horned/flanged wax rings are closet bolts, the bolts that hold the toilet down to the floor through the closet flange. Almost always, these closet bolts are metal, meaning they will rust. The finish on the bolts are always shiny and bright, alluding that the product you are installing is good. It's clearly not. Those bolts in a very short period of time will start to rust due to the wet location design and the bolts will slowly deteriorate, rust and seize up, forcing the removal and replacement of the bolts, "The Next Time" :wtf: and why wouldn't they want you back? They are making money off of you! They don't have to make thousands of dollars, just a few, one customer at a time that truly adds up.

Don't you think it's worth a few more dollars to put in something that lasts for an indefinite period of time, something that will be quite easy to deal with years down the road when the time comes? Apparently for some, no. It's by personal choice for sure but the consumer has a way of being sucked into a bad situation without knowing it. The horned/flanged wax ring is recommended by experts, comes free with cheap no good closet bolts even when you buy a toilet. You're convinced that it is a worthwhile purchase for this very reason. What gets everyone in trouble is the design of that horned wax ring that no one knows about.


THE HORN OF A WAX RING


When the plastic horn is embedded into a wax ring, it is supposed to be placed in the center of the ring, dividing the wax evenly between the two planes of wax that make up the total distance of the thickness of the ring. However when a toilet is placed onto a closet flange, the horn can sometimes hit the edge of the inside of your piping system and cause the horn to now push up to the bottom of the toilet, or have the exact opposite effect and push down to the flange, pushing out all the wax between the horn and the flange, leaving the toilet with the great probability of leaking. If there is any time that you as a property owner wants to grimace and shake your fists angrily after reading about this revelation about horned wax rings, now is the time to do it. It will come as a freedom of knowing that those 3 trips to your local hardware store after resetting the toilet numerous times looking on the internet, calling up friends and family, asking your neighbors did nothing to stop the leak under your toilet.


It had everything to do with the 'type' of wax ring you was using, the one that marketing told you was better and more reliable. When they first designed the horned/flanged wax ring, they probably built it as a novelty to increase sales of a product that didn't have much activity on the shelves since toilet resetting isn't a common ritual in the home. What probably became obvious quickly when the horned wax rings hit the shelf was that the sales of wax rings then skyrocketed. How? The product not working for all applications, and there sits next to the now famous and 'better' flanged wax rings, the common, ever so innocent plain wax ring that's worked for decades without a single failure to name, as long as it is used correctly.

Now the makers of horned wax rings have a gold mine on their hands, lets figure out how to get more sales since they know that half of them will create leaks. Sell them with closet bolts in an All-in-One kit, like you the property owner is too lazy to reach for two items instead of one? Make a sweet deal with the manufacture of certain toilets where this glorious horned wax ring comes with the cheapest bolts made come with the toilet, making the consumer believe that they do not need to buy anything else, it comes with the toilet. Here is an image of what that buying decision creates:


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/DUNBAR/leaking_toilet_floor_damage.jpg)

Title: Re: Horned Wax Rings - Wax rings with Built in Plastic Collars
Post by: DUNBAR PLUMBING on April 10, 2011, 01:02:01 PM

The picture above is perfect evidence where you can see how the wax ring leaked due to a horn that was clearly not allowing wax to adhere to the closet flange and leaking wastewater outside of the piping onto the subfloor. It is rare when a horned wax ring actually serves its purpose without any issues arising from the application. If the horn does not stay in the equation where wax is on both sides of the horn, it's a matter of time before a leak can occur due to the fact that no wax exists, providing the water and gas tight connection to the toilet and the drain piping. It is a common question for us to ask the property owner if they used a horned wax ring or not, knowing the probability of the leak they are asking us to fix is directly tied to the use of that type of wax ring. Here is the type of wax ring ON THE LEFT that Dunbar Plumbing uses for the installation or reset of a toilet:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/DUNBAR/plain_versus_bell_or_funnel_wax_ring.jpg)

Can you see why the wax ring on the right with the funnel type design is clearly going to cause a leak? It's because there is hardly any wax between the flange of that plastic funnel and what goes against your toilet. The picture shows the wax is probably only 3/8" of an inch, tops.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/DUNBAR/FINAL-DUNBAR-LOGO-2011.jpg)